Jump to content
Ian

Looking for inspiration

Recommended Posts

Anyone have any suggestions for articles? I fancy writing one, but cannot think what to write about. I gave up on bacterial blooms as it was too complicated.

Looking for something simple, for me but also for new members!

What does the articles section need?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been reading and researching on pH changes in ponds, but I don't know quite enough to write an article myself just yet.

I wouldn't give up on the bacterial blooms because I think you're onto something that would be quite educational and useful. We just need to find a way to break it down to where anyone could read it and it would make total sense. A lot of the bacterial bloom, pH, Co2, etc. can get all technical and seem pretty complicated unless we explain it in a way that is easily understood.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I will get to one of floating in fancy goldfish. Neither of which will help you two as you guys don't have fancies. I also wanted to write about what I think is a solid and recommended diet. A lot of people feed garbage and don't know it. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to see an article about choosing your new (or next) goldfish. What to look for or avoid at the store (clamping, dead fish, etc.), what breeds will get very large, what ich looks like. 

I think an article on water testing would be great too. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, GingerFish said:

@Ian I'd love to see you write about water testing. :) 

But what is to be said apart from the API instructions? Do you mean how to do a water test?

I'm no expert on water testing, but willing to have a bash, unless someone else wants to - the more good content we have, the better traffic we will get!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ian said:

But what is to be said apart from the API instructions? Do you mean how to do a water test?

I'm no expert on water testing, but willing to have a bash, unless someone else wants to - the more good content we have, the better traffic we will get!

IAN!

i LOVE your new profile picture!!!!!!!!!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first problem is that I don't fully understand what the API actually measures. TAN I believe Total Ammonia Nitrogen. So that is Ammonia & Ammonium combined?

That was always my belief - the first API bottle Salicyclic acid ? converts it all to Ammonia, then drop bottle 2 measures it. Shades of Green tests are salicylate based.

But plenty out there https://nippyfish.net/2006/08/08/ammonia-test-kits-nessler-vs-salicylate/

States the exact opposite to my understanding. I think both Nessler and Salicylate tests measure total ammonia, but not according to nippyfish- 

The Ammonia Test Kits:

The Nessler method test kit is designed to test the total combined ammonia (NH3) and ammonium (NH4+) levels. The color chart measures in shades of amber or brown. If you are treating your tank with AmQuel+ or a similar ammonia fighting water conditioner then you aren’t interested in the total ammonia level, you are only interested in any toxic ammonia that may be present. If you test with a Nessler test kit you may get a false positive. Technically it isn’t “false” but it is telling you more then you need to know. More recently, Salicylate based test kits have been the norm on store shelves. They measure ammonia in shades of green and only warn you of dangerous (NH3) ammonia levels. These are safe to use with water conditioners like AmQuel+ or Ammo Lock.

Which I think is wrong?

Here is another one! http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/ponds/35869-about-nessler-vs-salicylate-amquel.html

If we are gonna do kits vs strips, fair enough, but also why recommend API? - it is because salicylate tests are more accurate than Nessler tests http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0044848615301058, but to recommend one over the other requires agreement about what it measures. I have asked on the "invisible" forum and elsewhere, but never got an answer that I fully comprehended.

I think that Salicylate tests API and Nessler tests measure the same thing, but Salicylate is just better?

If we can sort that out, I'll write up an article, and Myra or someone else can fill in the blanks (safe short term, dangerous short term, what to do - Prime, salt? Or what - I only ever did a water change AGAIN!)

 

Edited by Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ian said:

My first problem is that I don't fully understand what the API actually measures. TAN I believe Total Ammonia Nitrogen. So that is Ammonia & Ammonium combined?

 

Ammonium is a non-toxic form of ammonia, so i'm assuming it only tests for ammonia...since when it's de-toxified, it wont' show up?? but could be wrong 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Kmeier2017 said:

Ammonium is a non-toxic form of ammonia, so i'm assuming it only tests for ammonia...since when it's de-toxified, it wont' show up?? but could be wrong 

Ammonium is less toxic, perhaps harmless, but it can easily jump to bad, even if ammonium itself is completely harmless. I read that on the old forum but the card with the colour chart says total ammonia nitrogen no? "Ammonia NH3 / NH4+"

 

1 person likes this

IanMcLeish

  • Member
  •  
  • IanMcLeish
  • Member
  •  339
  • 674 posts

I have asked this question here before, and researched it elsewhere, but i can still not get my head around this - does the API show Ammonia, or total ammonia Nitrogen?

Can it differentiate between good and bad ammonia?

I gave up looking and got something which only detects bad stuff - I cannot for the life of me work out which of the tests checks only for good, and which checks only the bad - there is alot of conflicting info out there...

I have asked this question here before, but can anyone answer it? Please... I can't despite a lot of research.

My thoughts were that bottle one of the API turns everything into BAD ammo, and then bottle 2 will turn green depending on the Total amount. But others say that the one drop test?? Nessler is what does that, but if that were the case, why did I need to refer to a chart with pH and temp, to determine a safe level on the Nessler test, which I gave up on.

I really think that there must be someone here who can answer this - if only we had a marine biologist forum guardian.... or someone who could understand the conflicting internet answers.

There seem to be only two main Ammonia tests - Salicylate based (Green) and Nessler ?? Orange (can't remember). As every one here says Salicylate is best, recommending the API, what actually is it measuring, please. Is there also a Three bottle test??

I cannot work it out. Just went searching for LD 50 for Ammonia again - the lethal dose to 50% of the tank in 24hrs, but cannot find it. Also mentioned it here, but again I cannot find it.

What is a "safe level" for Ammonia on the API - reading the car it seems not to differentiate between good and bad - NH3 / NH4+?

Someone??

 

 

Anna

  • Super Member
  •  
  • Anna
  • Member
  •  1,991
  • 3,356 posts

I believe both the Nessler and salicylate tests detect total NH3 and NH4+ combined. This company makes lab grade testing equipment so I'm guessing their info is pretty accurate

http://hachcompany.custhelp.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/1000858/~/do-the-nessler-and-salicylate-methods-detect-ammonia-or-ammonium%3F

 

IanMcLeish

  • Member
  •  
  • IanMcLeish
  • Member
  •  339
  • 674 posts
  On 11/12/2016 at 10:11 PM, Anna said:

I believe both the Nessler and salicylate tests detect total NH3 and NH4+ combined. This company makes lab grade testing equipment so I'm guessing their info is pretty accurate

http://hachcompany.custhelp.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/1000858/~/do-the-nessler-and-salicylate-methods-detect-ammonia-or-ammonium%3F

Thanks Anna. I have already been in touch with API as Myra suggested, but no response yet, (only did it this morning), guess we do not really need it now?

I had previously thought that a 2.0 level would kill fish, but now see that at a reasonable pH and temperature, it should be nearly harmless!! Doesn't matter much to me, personally, as my tank is cycled - always Yellow - happy days!

Next question has to be, does anyone know what level of free ammonia is "safe". Is any safe?? Obviously none is best, but what IS acceptable for a cycling tank??

I went looking for this, having forgotten about it - it is a spreadsheet to calculate the dangerous, based on the reading, the pH and the temperature.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B07wAC7V5eLqQ1JmajllQnAyT1U/edit

The chap who made this has a post on the Irish Fishkeepers Society, and seems to know his stuff.

http://irishfishkeepers.com/forum/8-water-and-health/90193-ammonia-calculation

It gives a result as a number, but now we need to find out if that number is acceptable.... But equally it gives two numbers, and I have no idea which one is the one to take, I suspect the second, bottom one - it is a higher number.

Another, simpler way to look at it is using this chart, which would suggest that an API reading of 8 could be safe at neutral pH!?! 

Found this here; http://cdas.org.au/main/node/119

 tableA.jpg

I have asked API why they do not include a chart, like Hagen do, to estimate if the result is safe.

I have been at this for about 3 hours today, and finish this post feeling I know little more than when I started - So complicated.

At what ridiculously high total ammonia reading will a fish be burned by ammonia? - I shudder to think what the level would be if a fish has ammonia burns......I suppose it depends on your tapwater?

I will never post about ammonia ever ever again:(

 

 

IanMcLeish

  • Member
  •  
  • IanMcLeish
  • Member
  •  339
  • 674 posts
  On 11/13/2016 at 1:43 PM, IanMcLeish said:

This seems to me to be an excellent article BTW

 

IanMcLeish

  • Member
  •  
  • IanMcLeish
  • Member
  •  339
  • 674 posts
  On 11/13/2016 at 7:54 PM, myrasosweet said:

At higher pH, ammonia is more toxic, at lower pH nitrite is more toxic. Way too sciency for me!

But Ammonium is toxic as well - who knew!!?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, GingerFish said:

Why we test, how often, test kit vs strips, what we test for, what are dangerous results vs optimal results. 

As far as what results are safe, etc., I just redid the "proper water parameters" topic about that. We could maybe move it to articles if you wish.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Kassousminou said:

As far as what results are safe, etc., I just redid the "proper water parameters" topic about that. We could maybe move it to articles if you wish.

i put that on the site i'm creating as well......

don't worry, i'm gonna put your and my names by it to give credit!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm thinking a new "newbies articles" section for the absolute beginners out there? Doesn't have to be called that though?

As the forum grows, we can relocate (or copy) important stuff or stuff which should be "pinned" to the articles section, when they drop off the first page or two?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×

Important Information

Please read and indicate your acceptance of our Forum Rules Guidelines and our Privacy Policy